Being your authentic self with Carson Kressley ’91

Carson Kressley ’91: Having a really well-rounded liberal education allowed me to bounce around from the U.S. Equestrian Federation to Ralph Lauren to working in film and television.

President Bob Iuliano: Hi, and welcome to Conversations Beneath The Cupola, a Gettysburg College podcast. I’m Bob Iuliano, president of the College and your host. It’s Pride Month, which offers an important occasion to underscore the College’s commitment to ensuring that we have created a fully inclusive and supportive working and learning environment. One that embraces and celebrates difference in all its dimension. One that ensures that the college’s doors are fully open to the most talented students from all parts of society. One that understands that we have the greatest opportunity to learn about ourselves and the world when we are able to see it through the eyes of another.

President Bob Iuliano: Here at Gettysburg, the Office of LGBTQIA+ Life is championing this good work, advancing a campus culture that ensures all students are able to be their authentic selves and succeed here, regardless of their sexual orientation, gender identity, And gender expression. But it’s more than an office initiative. It’s a campus commitment.

President Bob Iuliano: In this episode, I’m joined by one of Gettysburg College’s most notable alumni and a pioneer in this essential work, Carson Kressley. A 1991 graduate of the College, Carson is a designer, actor, and an American television personality. He’s known for his role in the early 2000 Bravo series “Queer Eye For The Straight Guy” and as a judge on VH1’s “RuPaul’s Drag Race,” among other appearances. Carson and I will discuss the highlights of his Gettysburg College days and how his remarkable career has paved the way for a new generation to see themselves and ultimately to gain the courage to be themselves out in the world.

President Bob Iuliano: Carson, thank you for joining us today. I think when you and I last saw one another, it was in New York City. It was about February of 2020, and then, the whole world changed. So, I hope you have been well. And, while today’s conversation is virtual, I’m also really looking forward to having you come back to this campus, which really means a lot to us to have you here. And, I want to thank you. We had a successful spring and in part, the message that you gave to our students, encouraging them to rise to the challenge, made a big difference. So, thank you for being such a good friend to your alma mater.

Carson Kressley ’91: Of course. Of course. Anything for Gettysburg. Yeah. That was the fundraiser, I think at The Union League Club, was like the last... One of the last social events I ever did before the pandemic. So, there are some good memories. It’s the best party I can remember for the last year, so thank you.

President Bob Iuliano: Well, I’m glad to be able to pull that off. So, let me start with a really basic question, one that I often ask people. Why Gettysburg? How did you find your way to this college at the time that you did? What drew you here?

Carson Kressley ’91: I talk to a lot of Gettysburg alums. I just was somewhere yesterday in New York and somebody said, “Oh, I went to Gettysburg, too.” And, I think we all have such a positive feeling about the place that is Gettysburg and the experience that we had. And, I found out about Gettysburg through another friend, a friend of the family whose daughter was enrolled at Gettysburg and was a couple years older, and they said, “You really need to go take a look.” It was on my list with the usual suspects, the Oberlins and the F&Ms and those smaller liberal arts colleges in the Northeast, like Skidmore.

Carson Kressley ’91: But I went to Gettysburg and I had a tour, and I will tell you, the Admissions house was very well-decorated in 1988 or ’89, whenever that was. That made a big impact. I was like, “Wow. This is really... This is a lovely place.” And, then I had the tour. I distinctly remember and I can remember it to this day. I remember people holding the door, like at The CUB or at the mailbox or some place, The Dive. People seemed so lovely and I thought, “Wow, this really feels like my kind of place.” That was literally how I made my decision.

Carson Kressley ’91: I became a tour guide myself and went back to that Admissions house and sat in the basement and made great friends and spread the gospel about Gettysburg to other incoming potential students. It was just a great experience. So, that was the clincher, was the visit. I think it was Darryl Jones was the admissions officer. And, I just remember it very clearly and I remember the beauty of the campus. But on top of all those other things, it was really... It just had a good vibe and people seemed really nice.

President Bob Iuliano: It is.

Carson Kressley ’91: So, I was just like, I like this.

President Bob Iuliano: You have captured so eloquently and completely the strength of this place. If we can get an admitted student onto campus and to see the place and to experience it the way you experience it and I experience it, they are sold. It’s the physical beauty, but it is the community, a place that both supports and challenges students in ways that I don’t think happens all that many other places, Carson. That is a profound way of describing it.

President Bob Iuliano: Okay. You make it through your four years. You get out into the world. And, one of the things we’ve begun here is a strategic plan and it’s a strategic plan very much focused on making sure we are preparing students for the world that awaits. And, you know it’s a complicated world out there. So, when you graduated and as you begin to look back, what did Gettysburg offer you and how would you wish to have done it differently if you had the chance to sort of wind back that clock?

Carson Kressley ’91: This is an interesting question because preparing students for the real world, I know a lot about it. I actually sit on the board of Thomas Jefferson. I did that for a number of years and they were all about technical education and they have a great fashion program. And, I was kind of... In the back of my mind, I was like, “Hmm, I kind of think I like liberal arts better.” Just because I had such a positive experience at Gettysburg. And, I had a degree in business, which I really enjoyed, but then I also had a minor in fine arts and art history and sculpture, which I also really enjoyed and it gave me great balance. I think that’s what a liberal arts education is. It’s like being very balanced and well-rounded and not so narrow, because I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I had a great solid education and I... I was well-educated. I was a good communicator. I could write. I could think critically. But I didn’t know what I wanted to do, so I didn’t have a very specialized field of study. I wasn’t like an accounting major.

Carson Kressley ’91: So, it kind of gave me the ability to... I moved to New York City. I think we graduated on May 7th and I moved to New York City on May 8th. I had a job lined up in the nonprofit sector and after a couple of years of that, I was like, “I would love to buy some nice shoes. Maybe I should work in the profit sector.” But having a really well-rounded liberal education allowed me to bounce around from the U.S. Equestrian Federation to Ralph Lauren to working in film and television, and I think it’s just... For me, that was the right recipe. I love people that are just like, “I’m going to be a dentist and I’m going to go get my degree in biology and then I’m going to go do my residency and then I’m going to go to dental school.” I wasn’t that focused.

Carson Kressley ’91: So, for me, a liberal arts education was very helpful because it allowed me a lot of different opportunities in so many different fields.

President Bob Iuliano: Say a word or two more about that. So, you started out in the not-for-profit space and you ended up moving into fashion, as I understand it. And, from there, into television. How did this evolution take place, Carson? Was it purposeful? Was it serendipitous? What happened?

Carson Kressley ’91: No. People would ask and they would say, “You know, what’s your plan? What’s your five year plan?” And, I would always say, “I don’t know what I’m doing on Tuesday.” I was not that organized. But I followed my passion and my heart and I had the good fortune of having a very solid education. I just kind of chose jobs that thought... That I thought were a good fit and sounded interesting to me. I also have an ignorance is bliss kind of mentality. Like, I didn’t know what I couldn’t do, so I just thought, “Well, of course I can work for the U.S. Equestrian Federation. I’ve been showing horses since I was a kid. I know how to talk to people. I’ve seen Legally Blonde. I know how to do rules and regulations. I’ll be fine.” That world kind of prepared me for the next step, which was Ralph Lauren.

Carson Kressley ’91: After a while, I was just like, I would love to work for a big company. Certainly, in the early nineties, Ralph Lauren was going public and it was in its heyday, so that was a great opportunity. And again, I may have been more prepared if I had had a technical fashion degree. I would have known how to do tech packets and develop buttons and fabric sourcing. But what I found more helpful at that job, again, was being a communicator and being an artist and being a visual person and telling a story through clothing and through design and through styling.

Carson Kressley ’91: And then, that was a perfect transition. When “Queer Eye For The Straight Guy” was being produced in 2002, someone in my office said, “Oh, you should try out for this show. You’d be perfect.” And, they said, “You know, it’s on Bravo.“ And, I said, “What’s that? A nonstick cooking spray?” I didn’t know what Bravo was in 2002. But again, I did that ignorance is bliss thing where I was just like, “Well, of course I could be on television. I mean, I... The job is to style people and make them look good. I know how to do that.” So, I just took a chance. I had a great boss at Ralph Lauren named Liz Paley who said, “You should try it and if it doesn’t work out, we’ll hire you back.” Which, nobody gets that. So, to this day, I’m like, Liz Paley, thank you.

Carson Kressley ’91: I did that. We didn’t know if it was going to be a success and then a year later, we had a Primetime Emmy and I was on “The Tonight Show” and it was an insane transition. And, I know that doesn’t happen normally. And, now that I know how difficult television is and how hard it is to even get a project produced, I can’t believe that we had such success right out of the gate. But I was very lucky. I was prepared at that right moment. And, we put in the good work to make it happen. So, all of those things kind of made it work.

President Bob Iuliano: You know, as we were recording this, just yesterday we graduated our class of 2021 and one of the messages is just being open to the serendipity that life presents. And, it sounds like, just having heard that answer that you just gave, Carson, that’s what your life story has been. Willing to take a risk. An opportunity presents itself and say, “You know, I can try this and I can see what emerges from it.” And, I hope that’s a lesson that our graduates take to heart because life isn’t linear. We know this now, right? It is a little bit zigging and zagging and we just need to be open to both the zigs and the zags.

President Bob Iuliano: So, as I understand it, “Queer Eye” helped cause you to come out to your parents. How did that come about and as you look back and you want to give advice to students here as they’re thinking about some of these challenges as well, what advice would you give them?

Carson Kressley ’91: That show was instrumental in my own like coming out story because, of course, I was out to friends and colleagues in New York City and like so many young people, I moved to a giant city and kind of created a new life. It was great, but I did not come out to my actual family, to my parents, my brother, my sister, until I was getting ready to do “Queer Eye For The Straight Guy.” And, literally, I remember making episodes. My mom’s like, “Now, what is this called?”.And, I’m like, “We don’t really have a name for it yet. It’s a makeover show.” And then, the show was getting ready to air and about a month before we were going to be on the cover of TV Guide and I think it was coming out on a Tuesday and I was like, “I better go home to Pennsylvania on this weekend and before Tuesday rolls around and tell them that I’m gay.”

Carson Kressley ’91: I did and it was totally fine and it was one of those situations where they had already probably known, but we didn’t have the official, which is always uncomfortable.

Carson Kressley ’91: And, I would say to young people... For me, it was a great blessing to come out and unleash the floodgates of success and opportunity for me, and when I speak to young people, I say this thing that I thought was an Achilles’ heel and a detriment really became a blessing and I literally got the job on “Queer Eye” because I was gay. It was like the ultimate and flipping the script on discrimination. And, I tell young people all the time, “You will be the most successful version of yourself when you are your most authentic version of yourself.” But I don’t take it lightly. I do know that it’s very... It’s scary and it’s alienating and you have to come out when you have a support network and you have people that can support you, because it is very, very stressful.

Carson Kressley ’91: And, I try to tell people maybe that aren’t LGBT that it’s one of the most unusual scenarios because... I wrote a kids’ book called “You’re Different And That’s Super, “and I wrote it partially about being gay and growing up that way, but also at that time, I had a niece who was like the tallest girl in her fourth grade class. She was like five feet tall and she was like, “Uncle, I hate being so tall.” I was like, “Oh, honey. Wait. You’re going to love it later.” Just... She didn’t feel like she fit in, but at least she could come home and say, “I get picked on at school because I’m too tall.” Or, I’m Asian or I’m terrible at sports or whatever. Gay kids don’t oftentimes have that same luxury where they feel they can come home and speak about their issue or their problem or why they’re... Why they’re feeling badly, because they’re afraid to tell their closest people, their friends, their family.

Carson Kressley ’91: So, it does make coming out, still, to this day, very difficult. I think it’s getting easier and easier, but everybody needs to have a support network. They need to come out on their own time with their own personal timing. There’s so many resources now, though. There’s great places, hotlines like The Trevor Project. And, I sit on a board of a foundation called True Colors United, which works to eliminate youth homelessness because LGBT kids are 40 percent more likely to experience homelessness than their straight peers. So, there are so many resources. They’re at the touch of a computer or at a community center, and the number one message to young people is that you are exactly who you’re supposed to be and there’s nothing to be ashamed of and there’s a community out there that will love and support you even if you’re not finding that maybe at home.

President Bob Iuliano: Thank you for that. That’s powerful. What advice would you give me and the College about how to help people through that transition and through finding their authentic self in a way that worked for you so successfully?

Carson Kressley ’91: That’s really interesting because when I was at Gettysburg, you find your tribe, and some people find it in... Back in the ’80s and ’90s, maybe some people found it in sports or Greek life or whatever. I found mine at the Kline Theatre. Shocker. So, I was able to find my tribe and I do remember... And, I don’t even know if it was when I was a student or when I came back for maybe a fifth year reunion, but there was an LGBT students and faculty mixer and it was at the something Lodge, which is near the Kline Theatre. It’s a little building. I’ve never even been inside. It’s very mysterious to me. And, I remember thinking, “Wow, maybe I should go to that.” And, I was still kind of cloaked in secrecy. I don’t think I went. But I think if you have a place for people... When I was at Gettysburg, it wasn’t very diverse.

President Bob Iuliano: Right.

Carson Kressley ’91: It was very much... You know, we all kind of looked the same and came from New Jersey or New York or Connecticut and dressed the same and we got our Tweeds catalog at the Student Union in our little mailboxes. And, that was fine and I had a great experience, but the power of diversity is that when you interact with people and you work with them and you live with them and you study with them and you recreate with them, it’s a human on human interaction and if you befriend a gay person and you say, “Well, oh, they’re more like me than I thought. They’re not that different at all. Why shouldn’t they be able to get married or have kids or adopt?”.And, that goes for any kind of marginalized group.

Carson Kressley ’91: I think it’s very important to have visibility on campus, very important to have inclusion and diversity on campus, because that is how we better ourselves as a society and a world, because we interact with people that we might not have interacted with before and we say, “Hey. Guess what? They’re a human. Not scary.” And, I think school, especially places like Gettysburg, which is so intimate and such a community... I think it really prepares you for the world and to make the world a better place. And, if you have a diverse experience on campus, you’re going to be better prepared for that life outside of the town of Gettysburg.

President Bob Iuliano: It is a fundamental commitment that I have and the College has to increase our efforts at diversity. But more than diversity, of course, is the notion of belonging and inclusion and making sure that every person can find this is a true community for them, their authentic self, their authentic home. And, we have work to do, obviously, but I think we’ve also made a lot of progress since the time that you were a student here, and that really matters, I think, in a very profound way.

President Bob Iuliano: So, going back to students who just graduated, what advice would you have for them as they go out into the world, this world today that’s a not an uncomplicated place? But, how should they find their footing?

Carson Kressley ’91: Yeah. That’s a great question and I’ve given some of these graduation speeches here and there, so I should know the answer to this. I was thinking back to my graduation and in May of 1991 and we had a brilliant... I think he was a... Like, a psycholinguist. His name was Noam Chomsky. I don’t even... I don’t know what a psycholinguist even does, but... And, I don’t remember a thing that he said. I remember it was a lovely day and we marched through Penn Hall and it was glorious and also tinged with sadness because it’s like, what now? And, like, “Bye. Am I never going to see you again?”.

Carson Kressley ’91: But my number one advice, I think, is to be open and be flexible to opportunities, and I have always... I call this the William Shatner Theory of Showbiz, but it applies to life. I saw an interview with him where he said, you know, he said yes to things that he probably wouldn’t have been told to say yes to by advisors or agents, but they may have led to other opportunities. Like, when he was asked to be a Priceline spokesperson. Movie stars didn’t do off-price website endorsements in the late ’90s. And, he said yes and he made a fortune and he just says yes to all these things that lead to other things and he is now 90 years old and he is still working in film and television. So, I try to do the same thing and I will oftentimes say yes when I probably shouldn’t, but they lead to other things.

Carson Kressley ’91: I’ve been doing “RuPaul’s Drag Race” for seven... I think seven seasons, seven years, several Emmys later. And, that show happened because I said yes to a show that I didn’t really think was going to be great or that I wanted to do. But RuPaul was one of the hosts of that show and said, “Why aren’t you on my show?” And, I said, “I don’t know. Let’s make that happen.” And, that was eight years ago and it... One thing can lead you to another, so I would say always be very open. Believe in saying yes more than no. See where life takes you.

Carson Kressley ’91: I’ve built a career on not having a plan. It’s worked out. Then, of course, you have to... You know, you have to be nice and you have to work hard and you definitely have to put in the... Nothing’s easy, even if television looks easy or if I’m showing a horse at a high level. It’s supposed to look easy, but it’s not easy, and that’s really important for people to know, too, that opportunities are wonderful, but it’s the sweat equity that makes them really work.

President Bob Iuliano: That leads me to a question. What are you working on now? What is keeping you occupied and how have you managed to navigate that during the midst of the pandemic?

Carson Kressley ’91: Yeah. I have been very lucky that we’ve been able to work during the pandemic. And, last year at this time, I thought maybe I’ll never work again. But we have a very progressive company called World of Wonder and they produce “RuPaul’s Drag Race” and a myriad of other shows, and they were very excited to get back to work. And, our union and the state of California, everybody collaborated beautifully to make sure that we could get film and television back up and running in a very, very safe way. We did and we were able to make a great season of television. We just won an MTV Movie and Television Award, I think, Sunday night, for this last season, season 13. So, I’ve been able to work.

Carson Kressley ’91: I just finished another new show that was canceled in 2020, but we squeezed it in this spring in Texas. It’s called “BBQ Brawl,” so if you like food and cooking, it’s Bobby Flay and Anne Burrell, and I’m kind of the host and judge. I’m not an expert at making food, but I’m an expert at eating it.

Carson Kressley ’91: So, I think I do a pretty good job. And then, I’m getting ready to go back to California to start production on something new as well. So, I’ve been very, very lucky. I’ve been able to be in Pennsylvania at my farm where I am right now and enjoy that. I’ve been able to connect with friends and family in a way that I haven’t when I was very busy. It’s been a good reset and I’ve been blessed that I’ve still been able to work.

President Bob Iuliano: Well, it sounds wonderful and I look forward to seeing all of the fruits of your labor on television in the weeks and the months to come.

Carson Kressley ’91: Yes.

President Bob Iuliano: So, we’re heading into Pride Month. What would you like people... As we reflect on this point of time, where we also see both progress but also new challenges as well on the horizon, how would you like us to reflect on our aspirations for Pride Month, but more broadly, on how we should be thinking of this moment in time and advancing the cause of justice that I know matters to you?

Carson Kressley ’91: I think the gay pride movement is a very important one and I still... You know, we’ve made so much progress, but we still have so much still to do, especially protecting our trans brothers and sisters. Certainly the Black Lives Matter movement. All of those things highlight that we still have a lot of social injustice. Changing that starts with you and it starts with me and everybody doing whatever they can in their world to be more empathetic and be more understanding and just be aware. I think that if you walk a mile in somebody’s shoes, you have such new awareness. I remember... I don’t know, like a year ago, where somebody said, “Well, you’re so privileged. What would you...?” And, I was like, “What? I’m not. I’ve worked so hard.”

Carson Kressley ’91: And then, I took a moment to be like, “No. I am. I’ve had so many opportunities.” And, sometimes we just have to take a moment and think about maybe how fortunate we are and how can we advance the cause of a brother and sister who maybe hasn’t had those same opportunities. And, I think you can do that in Pride Month, but you can do it every single day of the year. I always say for me, gay pride is every day because I try to go out there and remind people if there’s still injustices, that we need to fix it. I try to be proud myself of who I am and say, “Look, this is what you’re getting. Enjoy.” Because I’m not changing. It’s now more than ever, we need to support one another and support other humans and really open our eyes and be aware. I think awareness is the thing that leads to change.

President Bob Iuliano: I think this goes back to a comment you made earlier, which is the importance of having an authentically diverse community as well, because that awareness starts by virtue of being next to someone whose life is very different than yours.

President Bob Iuliano: And, understanding first, as you said, there are a lot more similarities often than there are differences. But also just breaking down stereotypes, misunderstandings, misapprehensions, and seeing the world through the eyes of another person. And, that... You know, we do it through the theater. We do it through arts. But we also do it through the lived experience of the encounters that take place and it’s one of the things that I really admire about this place, is we do it at a human scale. It is impossible not to bounce into one another on this campus and know people by virtue of that. In bigger places, I think it’s a little bit harder. I think it’s a little bit harder because you have more of an opportunity to engage in isolation and just doing the things that you’re comfortable and familiar with.

President Bob Iuliano: Well, Carson, this has been enormously engaging. Any last words of advice for the college, for alma mater, for our graduates or for the world, as we look ahead to what I’m increasingly optimistic is a post-COVID environment? At least a largely post-COVID environment.

Carson Kressley ’91: I’m looking forward to better days ahead. I think you sometimes have to go through great crisis and challenge and pain and then you can emerge and be fortified and see new beauty, and I’m very excited about all of that. And, I think... Gosh, just, you know, my whole thing is that my biggest success came from being myself and anytime I tried to be somebody else, whether it’s on a movie set or at work... I would look at people and say, “Oh, I should do it that way.” And, when you gain the confidence and the centeredness and the focus to do things your way and your authentic way, you bring your special... Your secret sauce to the mix and what makes you special to your workplace or to your relationship or to your college community, that’s when things really start becoming magic. So, that’s what I would say, is just really... You do you because nobody else can do it like you can.

Carson Kressley ’91: And, I’m very excited. I think this is my 30th reunion year. I just got an email about a reunion, so I’m going to... Maybe I’ll pop in and see you if I make it back to campus.

President Bob Iuliano: Let’s make it a date. I would love to host you on campus and remind you of what a remarkable place this is, though it sounds like you don’t really need a reminder. But still, show off the place to you, to one of our very accomplished graduates, someone who’s given a lot to this place and has made a real difference in the world as well by the work that you’ve done and walls that you’ve broken down. So, Carson, thank you so much for this conversation, for your contributions broadly, and to our college.

Carson Kressley ’91: Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thank you.

President Bob Iuliano: Pride Month provides an important month for reflection on the many contributions made by members of the LGBTQIA+ community and the ongoing struggle for basic human rights. It occurs in the context of far too many negative opportunities for us to reflect as a country on the urgent need to confront the instruments of society that result in violence or discrimination against under-represented or marginalized groups. In the aftermath of the verdict in the Derek Chauvin case, the Gettysburg College community came together at the Peace Pole. It provided a necessary moment to hear from one another, to hear pained and painful testimony about how the entrenched reality of societal injustice affects the everyday lives of friends and colleagues here and across society. It underscored just how much work each of us has to do to help advance the call to justice.

President Bob Iuliano: McKinley Melton, associate professor of English, powerfully captured that call to action and it is a fitting way to conclude this podcast. Let me quote from McKinley’s compelling words. “So, I’ll close not with answers, but with questions. When you look at your friends, your loved ones, your neighbors, your colleagues, classmates, your professors, do you see how tired they are? If you haven’t noticed, then look closer. Secondly, are you prepared to step in to carry your part of the burden? Are you ready to do your part without asking for permission or guidance from those who are already exhausted from doing their own? If not, then what’s stopping you?”

President Bob Iuliano: Thanks for listening. If you’ve enjoyed this conversation and want to be notified of future episodes, please subscribe to Conversations Beneath The Cupola by visiting gettysburg.edu or wherever you get your podcasts. If you have a topic or suggestion for a future podcast, please email news@gettysburg.edu. Thank you and until next time.